TECH NAMES AND QUOTES

Fletching/Archery
Rafting
Taming
Early Domestication? (ie guinea pigs and dogs, and needed to allow poultry bonus, I don't think they're ruminant)
Early Tools
Smoking?
Metal Casting
Shifting Cultivation?
Weaving
Bronze Working
Astrology
Ruminant Domestication
Shamanism?
Pottery
Structural Woodworking
Masonry
Early Paving
Equine Domestication
Simple Machines
Sailing
Sun Worship?
Irrigation
Fermentation
Slash and Burn
Solar Calendar (can this be merged? I would like a more generalized tech for the wealth of forecasting information the mayans and aztecs had)
Alphabet
Spectator Sporting
Priesthood
Polytheism
Metal Currency "Coinage"?
Metaphysics
Boat Building
Trade
Epic Poetry
Brick Making
Sanitation
Ship Building
Early Paper
Early Philosophy
Early Litterature
Early Astronomy
Transcontinental Trade
Chattel Slavery
Siege Warfare
Fieldcraft
Divine Right
Theology
Iron Working
Estates (is this basically feudalism?/would it allow feudalism?)
Compound Machines
Organized Warfare
Horseback Riding
Asceticism
Logic
Geometry
Hereditary Nobility
Monotheism
The Republic
Professional Armies? (sounds fine im just wondering what effects would it have/what would it allow, ie in civics?)
Road Building
Construction
Literature
Aesthetics
Monument Building?
Stoicism
Civil Code
Steel?
Open Pit Mining
Clockwork
Classical Knowledge (may need a better name, and may already be in this list...)
Alchemy (what effects would this have?)
Optics
Jurisprudence
Civil Service?
Natural Philosophy
Serfdom (move earlier?)
Right of Man ???
Constitution
Stirrup
Black Powder
Perspective
Feudalism
Trade Guilds
Chain Mail
Blast Furnace
Siege Engines???
Windmill
Paper
Herbal Medicine
Farriers
Printing Press
Glass Production
Monasticism
Vassalage?
Vaulted Arches/Gothic Architecture
Holy War
Usury
Formal Education
Engineering
Cottage Industry
Crop Rotation
Plate Armour
Chivalry
Music
Metallurgy
Matchlock
Wheellock?
Flintlock?
Caplock/Percussion Cap?
...whats the modern system?...
Military Tradition?
Renaissance Art???
Castle
Clinker Hull
Lateen Sails
Magnetism
Algebra
Enlightenment
Social Contract
Naval Architecture
Astronomy
Astrolabe
Shipbuilding? (to allow ship construction improvement)
Naval Architecture???
Map Making
Rationalism
Trace Italienne (should this be a tech or an improvement like walls?)
Incorporation
Trading Companies
Anatomy
Biology???
Enclosure
Emancipation
Laws of Motion
Division of Labour
Nation-State?
Standardized Parts
Liberalism
Public Works???
Military Science/Tactics
Combined Arms (is this same as pattern weapons?)
Polygonal Fort
Calculus
Chemistry
Taxonomy
Weights and Measures
Machine Tools
Total War
Longitude
Scientific Husbandry?
Pattern Weapons
Cast Iron
Central Bank
Military Revolution?
Water Power
Mechanization
Mass Production
Factory Process
Steam Power
Compound Steam Engine?
Railroad
Rifling
Bessemer Process
Thermodynamics
Empiricism
Electrical Engineering
Organic Chemistry
Romanticism
Socialism
Limited Liability
Explosives
Machine Gun
Universal Suffrage
Petrochemistry
Telegraphy
Marine Engineering
Nationalism
Internal Combustion
Free Market (is that already here?)
Steam Turbine
Utilitarianism
Powered Flight
Trench Warfare
Atomic Theory
Psychology
Civil Engineering
Difference Engine
Aeronautics
Refridgeration
Assembly Line
Electronics
Radio
Antibiotics
Fission
Telecommunications
Gas Turbine
Polymerisation
Rocketry
Satellites
Composites
Microprocessor
Keynesianism
Megastructures
Welfare State
Genetics
Ecology
Nuclear Engineering
Revanchism (what would the effects be)
Mechanized Warfare
Robotics
Pharmaceuticals
Miniaturization
Consumerism
Globalization
Deep Operations
Networking
Contained Fusion?
Laser
Aluminum? (this is a tech?)
Naval Aviation?
Guidance Systems


? just means I need to do more research because I don't know enough about it
any replies to bracketed comments are appreciated

I've lumped them all together; I'm going to add the extra ones I had and then redivide once we've decided on eras

I may need more for weaponry/armoury, especially in medieval era

Also, if anyone has any corny quotes for any of these, please let me know. Make a funny one up if you have to! I need these in bulk.

RESERVED FOR TECH EFFECTS

FLETCHING/ARCHERY
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

RAFTING
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows: Raft
Effects:

DUGOUT
Requires:
Leads to: Sailing
Allows: Canoe
Effects:

TAMING
Requires:
Leads to: Animal Husbandry
Allows: War Elephant,...
Effects:

EARLY TOOLS
Requires:
Leads to: Simple Machines
Allows:
Effects:

SMOKING
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

BRONZE WORKING
Requires:
Leads to: Metal Casting
Allows:
Effects:

METAL CASTING???
Requires: Bronze Working
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

SHIFTING CULTIVATION
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

WEAVING
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

ASTROLOGY
Requires:
Leads to: Early Astronomy
Allows:
Effects:

SHAMANISM
Requires: Smoking?
Leads to: Smoking?
Allows:
Effects:

POTTERY
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

STRUCTURAL WOODWORKING
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

MASONRY
Requires: Pottery
Leads to: Early Paving
Allows:
Effects:

SIMPLE MACHINES
Requires:
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

SAILING
Requires: Dugout
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

SUN WORSHIP
Requires: Shamanism?
Leads to:
Allows:
Effects:

IN PROGRESS!

RESERVED FOR ERAS AND OTHER STUFF

ANCIENT ERA
1. Stone Age (4000BC to 3000BC)
2. Bronze Age (3000BC to 1000BC)
3. Iron Age (1000BC to 0AD)
CLASSICAL ERA
4. Classical Age (0AD to 400AD)
5. High Religious Age (400AD to 1100AD?)
MEDIEVAL ERA
6. Dark Ages (1100AD? to 1400AD)
7. Renaissance and Reformation (1400AD to 1650AD)
9. Enlightenment (1650AD to 1750AD)
INDUSTRIAL ERA
10. Revolutionary Era (1750AD to 1850AD)
11. Age of Disunity (1850AD to 1945AD) I need some sort of good name that represents the huge amount of disunity and conflict of the time
MODERN
12. Atomic Era (1950AD to 2010AD)
FUTURE
13. Postmodern Era (2010AD to 2050AD)
14. Neo Dark Age (2050AD to 2100AD)
15. New Modern Era (2100AD to 2200AD)
16. Future (2200AD+)

Should the depression, and/or world wars, be included as a modern mini-era?
And should I name the early dark ages that or should i name it something to do with the birth/growth of world religions?

Please give me any suggestions

ok, a few clarifications/etc;

Agreed on early domestiction (maybe merge with taming?): by ruminants I basically ment Cows, Camels, Oxen and the like
Smoking is supposed to be Smelting (Imageshack fail there)
I'm thinking Sun Worship and Astrology should be merged
Solar Calendar is basically formalised Astrology (effects would be agri bonus mainly)
Estates is a prereq for fuedalism, I was thinking of the Roman Latifundia system
I know steel seems a little early but it was always a matter of mass production (you could probably rename this to weapon crafting or something - Roman/fuedal Japan quality)
Alchemy would be a prereq black powder and metallurgy, could have some health benefits (some of their potions actually did work, sometimes!)
Serfdom is basically the improved version of Estates (around 10th century: further agri bonus)
Trace Italienne was the best name I could think of for post gunpowder fortification technology (upgraded city walls and Castle replacement tile improvement)
Astronomy would be Galileo/Copernicus era (prereq of Laws of Motion and Longitude [with clockwork])
Effects of Revanchism would be same as fascism but also prisons (concept of formalised revenge- I just like the word )
And frankly I put Aluminium in there because I couldn't think of a less direct name for it (I guess you could make its discovery with chemistry and usability with whatever gives hydroelectric power)

As for the era names I would rename early dark ages as just Dark ages and later dark ages as the High Middle Ages (or just middle ages). Pesonally if I were stiking to the dates you used I would call ages 10 and 11 the 1st and 2nd Industrial Revolutions and rename 12 the nuclear/atomic age and try and think of some new names for the future ages (mostly coz I'm not a fan of the word Modern in this context; and Postmodern gets me mad )

Thank you for the clarifications. What do you mean by Castle replacement tile improvement?

With serfdom- ok but is it ok if the serfdom civic is enabled earlier?

If Trace Italienne isn't going to be an improvement (wouldn't be hard to model BUT I don't know how I could get it fit around cities of different sizes) then we'll need a more generic name I guess

I probably should add a tech or two for power generation, in which case we won't need an aluminum tech.

As for names- let me know what you come up with for the future era (but I have to like them and I like the idea of having 50 years similar era to the one we have now, then 50 years dark ages, then another 100 years sorta similar, then an era for all the time beyond that).

I'm also trying to avoid using the same name too much (ie two industrial revolutions). I think there are other non-British names for the Early Modern Era I have, and I'll see what I can come up with. However, I don't mind the current name tbh. As for the dark ages, just because I am also using medieval as a generic lumping of later eras. I guess I consider the dark ages sort of classical, as it's sort of centered around the fall of Rome, and there was lots of revival of classical notions etc afterwords. But at the very least I will come up with a different name for one of those dark ages.

Also, there is a problem I will have to figure out how to fix (and I need suggestions for this)- the overlap of the renaissance and reformation. Perhaps I could merge them into one normal-sized era? Now that I think of it that sounds pretty good- let me know if you don't think I should do that

EDIT: I have submitted some changes to the eras. I feel that 1750-1945 was as much an era of revolutions as it was industrialization, so I made the name of the vague category "industrial era" and I named the sub-eras "revolutionary era" and "age of disunity", though I am still looking for a better name for the second one (though with similar meaning). Let me know if you think this will work

Kevin

Sorry for being slow but RL workload has been a bitch

For the Castle replacement thing, I thought of having several levels of 'fort' tile improvement, you could have ancient/clasical fort -> medieval castle -> post gunpowder (Trace Italienne) -> modern fort (Maginot etc.). Each one would give defensive bonus against period troops (castle would give good bonus against melee) but no bonus against more advanced troops (castle would be very poor vs cannons) leading to the need for an upgrade.

How much earlier would you want to put serfdom? The way i see it, its the transition from using slaves to work the land to using a subsistance but landless peasentry (which I associate with the fall of Rome period -> influx of large barbarian groups that the Romans buyoff with land).

I put in Electrical Engineering to represent late 19th century development of power production (coal and oil plants). Maybe you could make Civil Engineering the prereq for Hydro Plant (and have Steam Turbine as a prereq for Civil Engineering).

With the Era names I would swap 5 and 6 as for me the Dark Ages really refer to the imediate post Roman period and from about 900AD we see the growth of the big institutional (you could say politcially involved) religions (rise of Islam, increase in the power of the Pope, Crusades etc.) You could call age 11 something like the mechanised age, which covers both the power of industry to make peoples lives better and the terrible power of mechanised war to kill on an industrial scale. I'd also merge 12 and 13 (postmodern again , but in fairness the timeframe seams a little short) and maybe rename 15 the Fusion Age or something. Apart from that the rest are fine (no problem with the renaissance/reformation merger).

I believe you could equally say the opposite about dark/religious ages, so maybe that means we can merge? However I am actually considering your suggestion of dark and then middle ages

for forts, that sounds fine, though there will also be other simpler/less-effective ones before the set you provided (primitive walls ie palissades, wooden fortresses, those wire things to keep out natives/barbarians, etc.)

I know you're busy, but at some point I'm going to need you to help design the direction of the tech tree (what leads to what, and what requires what). The tech tree is still expanding (and if you think of any more you're welcome to add- I want as many included as there are a purpose to and were historically important), but there's almost no way I'm going to be able to make sense of this huge list on my own. Then, we'll have to group the techs in bundles (columns) like the normal tech tree in civ4. This will likely be the biggest mod undertaking (other than UHVs, which will be next to impossible).

At the moment we have a very loose tech list. We are going to have to try to somehow organize it so I can turn it into a real civ4 tech tree.

Kevin

On the issue of defences are you taking about just a more primative structure to the classical fort or a whole series of secondary, light defences (basically fieldworks, from simple palissades/earthworks upto modern day minefields). If the second one is what you're after we could have that as an inherant ability for infantry; a sort of uber-fortify order that would take a couple of turns and leave earthworks for other forces (maybe even enemies) to use at a later time. If possible these could deteriorate after time if not permanently manned.

As for putting the tree together, I fully agree with you that its a big undertaking, especially when I think of all the techs that I could add to what I've already got (right down to the level of things like torpedoes, organ transplants and case hardening if you want!). As it happens I've been trying to think of the individual prerequesites of each tech as I listed them down, so I already have the basis of a tree for a lot of these techs and would be more that happy to help you in putting this monstrosity together!

Following on from my last post, I came up with a list of possible techs that could be put in, you might think they are a little minor and I'd really like some feedback on that. Do you think that this is the kind of level we want the techs to be at, or should I stick to more generalised techs (for example the ones in the original post)?

Bayonet
Torpedos
Batteries
Case Hardening
Flintlock
Organ Transplants
Blood Transfusion
Seed Drill
Vulcanised Rubber
Percusion Cap
Canned Food
Arc Welding
Porcelain
Helicopters
Aqualung
Stealth
Magnetic Recording
Laser Recording
Paturisation
Synthetic Fibers
Chemical Weapons
Screw Propeller some helicopter-related tech in the works
Machine Gun
Quick Firing Artillery
Ironclading
Copper Plating
Iron Bridge
Tunnelling Machine
Rifling Already included? if not it will be
Genome Mapping effects?
Airships
Moving Pictures
Seismology
Sonar
Industrial Ceramics
Semiconductors
Electrical Standardisation
Chemical Fertilisers
Medical Nanotechnology
Medical Radiography
Submarines
Transuranic Elements
Superalloys
Industrial Nanotechnology
Photography effects?
Anesthesia
Advertising
Fuel Cells
Humanism
Religious Reformation
Remote Sensing
Citizenship
Logistics
Line of Battle
Structual Polymers
Coking Process
Liturgy
Monumental Architecture
Psychology
Atomism?
Epicureanism
Parliamentary System
Reconstructionism
Chain Mail something along these lines
(in no particular order!)

likely
maybe
unlikely
undecided

I did some thinking on techs; I think we will already have a difficult time with the tech tree. Of course I am still open to more tech ideas but I think our current level of depth is pretty good. I think there may/may not be small holes (ie missing requirements for units, etc) and some more in certain time periods, but we probably shouldn't go any more specific in our level of detail.

I will edit the font colour for all the techs you listed. If the colour stayed black, then I haven't yet looked it up (I don't know enough about it).

Also, I don't know what I should do for those gun-related techs. They will probably depend on what the requirements for the various gunpowder units/weapons are (I will need to research it or hear someone's knowledge on them)
ie I need to figure out what technologies would be required for
harquebuse
musket
rifle
pistol
various cannons
etc
(ie what kind of trigger systems etc each of these used)

I know this probably isn't doable, but I thought I might bring up a very old post I made for some other Civ-oriented project:



This is just an idea I had; maybe it can feed the brainstorm...

Generalspecific, while this is way out of my league at this point, and while the mod is fairly linear, I just had an idea- to at least slightly simulate this, perhaps I should get rid of the tech tree screen? That way nothing has to be changed, but you won't be able to 'plan' out your technological progress.